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Big_Monkey_Brother

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PostSubject: LCD Monitors...   Thu Jan 22, 2009 8:12 am

My 21" Sun CRT is fading... literally. The image, while still CRT-fabulous is getting darker as the years wear on, and I'm finding myself at a slight disadvantage while gaming since I literally can't see very well (at all) in those dark scenes.

Now my fallback to the old gal (my loving name for all inanimate objects that have served me well) was a shiny new NEC 21" CRT I had always noticed in Newegg. But as of Oct/Nov 2008 to my shock, Newegg no longer carried that CRT. Ohh the injustice!

So I'm faced with the reality that my next monitor will most likely be an LCD. My problem/fear with LCDs are the following: if you drive it at anything other than it's native resolution it looks like crap, and the high resolution offered by LCDs may be a bit too high for me as I'm not a fan of teeny-tiny text (not as big a deal but Steam chat text seems puny to me @ 1600x1200).

For years to compensate for an aging rig I've run my games at a lower resolution - to me it was a cheap & easy way to get higher frame rates while still enjoying the visual bells and whistles. A CRT accommodated that strategy very well since no matter what resolution you drive it at it looks frickin' great. With LCD that will no longer be the case, I fear...

So what can you all tell me of your LCD experiences? What can I do to mitigate the problems I'm predicting? What model/resolution/aspect ration is your LCD? Any advice when buying an LCD monitor? And most importantly does anyone knows where they still sell that NEC 21 CRT (crossing fingers but not hoping for much)?
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Nova

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:20 pm

i have a 23 inch L7 display at home.. i run it at full rez 1920 x whatever 1200 or something.. it was pretty cheap in the 300 range and it does what its supposed to i suppose.. my eyes are perfect and can see far away or close up big or small text so i am not much help here.

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Ocean_NB
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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:28 pm

I would avoid LG Flatron Wide 21" LCDS. I have 3 of them (work gave them to me) and all three have had something go wrong w/ them. One has the bottom half of the monitor that is washed out. The other two have a one pixel wide yellow vertical line that by-sects the monitor.

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Faith-away

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Thu Jan 22, 2009 12:40 pm

At home, I have a Samsung SyncMaster 21 (or is it 22...I forget)...it's not widescreen, but my next one will be. I just got my father a BenQ 24" widescreen for Christmas, and I am considering getting one for myself. It's badass...and everything is big enough at it's native resolution that even the blind could see it.
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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Thu Jan 22, 2009 7:55 pm

I have a Gateway 24" LCD running at 1920x1200 (native). It's got a great refresh rate (5ms) and supports HDMI, SVideo, DVI, and Component. I'm kind of in love with the thing.
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Scynthus

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:03 pm

hahaha Gateway...

...

I have a 19" Samsung wide screen - 1440x900
Never any problems.
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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:05 am

Scynthus wrote:
hahaha Gateway...

...

I have a 19" Samsung wide screen - 1440x900
Never any problems.

Piss off! The monitor's crisp and the colors are great! Razz

If it makes you feel any better, I have a rig by Alienware. The monitor's nice enough to double as a second TV (HDMI). I have a slimline Samsung CRT 32" TV and I've never been more disappointed. The colors shift after a few hours of use (it needs degaussing waaaaay too often), and the screen geometry/balance is slightly off.

I've liked Samsung products in the past, but after this TV, I'll never buy one for my living room again.
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Nova

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:20 am

Lugburz wrote:
If it makes you feel any better, I have a rig by Alienware.

oh no lugz that wont make anyone feel better.. you're talking to computer nerds that will berate you for paying so much for something they can build themselves =)

in

3

2

1

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Anonymous: you were right


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Scynthus

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:41 am

Alienware eh..? If I had to guess you probably paid around $1200-$1600 assuming you customized one. Alienware sells a few different models, starting prices range anywhere from $1400-$6000 depending on the model you choose.

You could probably build 2 high end rigs for one of the lower Alienware models that are priced around $1400.





Good comps, horrible prices... sadly.
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Big_Monkey_Brother

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:35 am

So everyone who has an LCD monitor runs their games - LFD and TF2, for instance - at the native resolution of your LCD monitor?

The concern I have with that is that as the games get more graphically intensive, the more computing and video card power you need to maintain a reasonable frame rate at those high resolutions (1920x1200, 1680x1050, 1400x900 etc).

In the past all I have had to do as the games got "fancier" and my rig got "older" was to lower the resolution I played the game at - this had the side effect of increasing my frame rate. Since I never lowered the resolution below 1024x768 the games never looked all that bad anyhow.

If I do that with an LCD monitor I'll still realize the increased frame rate benefit from running at a lower resolution but since it's and LCD being driven at something other than it's native resolution the image quality will begin to suffer - to me, things get "blurrier."


On a related note - the reason why I color my posts yellow is because the grey Ocean selected for the forums is hard to read on my Sun 21" CRT - and whenever anyone "quotes" a forum post that darker gray is almost impossible to read so I usually re-color that white. Meanwhile at work, on the 19" 1280x1024 LCD I'm using now the colors are easy to read, bright and clear....
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krazykid

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:33 am

My monitor is a Toshiba 32" LCD. 720P with PC in. Runs 1280X1024. I recently hooked up the video card with S-Video to Component and now it runs 1920X1080... and seems easier on the eyes and smoother.

It is BIG, and I will never go back to a normal computer screen again.
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MAN

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 11:40 am

I have two 20" wide screen Optiquest Q20wb's ( Viewsonic ). They are alright... I only paid 180 and 200 for them. They both run in 1680x1050 in game.

Most newer games + GPU's don't give you any MORE FPS if you change the resolution lower... back in the day this was true... I have seen worse FPS with a lower resolution before.
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Scynthus

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 2:40 pm

MAN wrote:
Most newer games + GPU's don't give you any MORE FPS if you change the resolution lower... back in the day this was true... I have seen worse FPS with a lower resolution before.

I used to lower resolution for more FPS back in the day... and it did work. However, nowadays it just makes things blurry and I'd be stuck with the same FPS as before, if not worse... Sad

No matter what I set my resolution and graphical settings too on 2Fort, if there's 2 teams of around 5-6 outside and I'm up on the battlements sniping, I lag to shit... anything less than that and I'm pretty much lag free.
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Big_Monkey_Brother

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:25 pm

Heya GURTMAN!!!

How tall and wide is your 22" 1680x1050 LCD? What I mean is the actual viewing area - I'm trying to get an idea of what kind of actual vertical and horizontal screen area I would be looking at.

My 21" 4/3 Sun CRT is 12" tall, 16" wide
A 24" 16/10 Samsung LCD in work is 12.75" tall, 20.50" wide
A 19" 5/4 HP LCD in work is 11.75 tall, 14.75" wide
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ShitHeel

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:39 pm

OK Monkey, it's 18.75" wide by 11.75" tall....and that's just the screen/viewable area, not the bezel.
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Big_Monkey_Brother

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:05 pm

Gurtman wrote:
OK Monkey, it's 18.75" wide by 11.75" tall....and that's just the screen/viewable area, not the bezel.

Thanks Gurt -

dingdingdingdingdingding I think we have a winner!

Those dimensions are close to my Sun monitor, but it's just, well, wider. So that's good because I wouldn't want to lose much vertical area to the widescreen and it will fit on my desk.

Now to begin my research...
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Big_Monkey_Brother

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:03 am

Contenders:

Dell 2208WFP
The Dell is fairly cheap, and has a lot more inputs than the HP and even includes a integrated web-cam. Don't know if I'd ever use that feature but it's nice to have it there.

HP w2207
The HP is reasonably priced and available at a local Best Buy... so even though I could spend 20-25 less if I ordered it online I could get it ASAP and have an easier time returning it if I don't like it. Needs a DVI-HDMI converter (or cable) since it only has VGA and HDMI inputs. This monitor has built in speakers but they're crap so I'll ignore them - besides I'd never replace my Cambridge Soundworks satellite system, or my headset!

Both are 22" 1680x1050 resolution, have 5ms (or less) response rates, glossy LCD screens, have USB hubs, and are tilt-adjustable
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krazykid

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:50 am

Quite the pickel you have here.

I say Dell, so I can watch your reaction everytime I blow you to smitheriens on your web cam.

But Dell monitors are kinda cheap, and I see alot of returns/rma's with them. Right now there are 2407WFPb's in the office with colored clouds that wont go away. But I see alot of them go bad.

HP I say is the better screen. But I have limited seat time on these as opposed to the dells. Local is better too, spend the 10$ for the no hassle warranty best buy has too, so you dont have to wait weeks for an RMA if something were to go bad.
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Faith-away

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:58 am

There is absolutely nothing wrong with Dell monitors as they are generally considered quite good if you look at their reviews (and some System Guides recommend them).
I wouldn't go with an HP monitor considering the shitty ones we have at work...but if you did, I'm sure you can get a work discount (Dell too I think).
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krazykid

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:28 pm

Yeah I guess i was swayed away from dell casue that is all i ever see and have to fix. power in numbers I guess.


Buy an Acer albino
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Big_Monkey_Brother

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 8:36 pm

Bought the HP w2207h @ Best Buy for $220 - that beat Newegg & Amazon (shocking).

Here's some before and after pics :


Got this 21" Sun CRT from a dying internet startup in the early 2000s for $50 (best deal ever!)



The old gal was over 70 lbs and a bit on the large side, but was a great performer:


This new LCD is shiny and bright - I'm not used to being able to see everything in game... since this desk has a hole for the monitor I'm not gaining a heck of a lot of desk space back but it is more airy...


And in case you were wondering... that keyboard is 20 years old, made of steel from my brother's old IBM compatible Zenith XT PC (8086 w/turbo button for 7 MHz speed). It's not the clicky kind of keyboard like IBM made back then, and the keys are spaced nice and wide apart just the way I like them. BTW hit the keys too hard and you hear a metallic echo under the hard plastic cover... old school!
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Dub_P

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:16 pm

I have the same exact monitor and love it. Not a problem with it yet.
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Big_Monkey_Brother

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:13 pm

Dub - glad to hear it. Have you ever adjusted the colors or anything on the monitor? I don't know if I'm just used to the old Sun CRT or what but things seem pastelly to me... for instance, the pushpins on the google map on the hlstats page seem purple to me now, whereas on the Sun CRT they looked blue. I did have to lower the brightness by like 50% - holy crap I knew my old Sun was getting dark but this HP LCD was over-the-top bright!

Anyone know of any free LCD color calibration software?
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Dub_P

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PostSubject: Re: LCD Monitors...   Wed Feb 11, 2009 11:24 pm

Never had to adjust the colors but I did have to tone down the brightness.I have it hooked up through VGA adapter though my video card doesn't have HDMI outputs don't know if that would make a difference.
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